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  • Gaming the Election

    There's a lot at stake with this election. It feels more like a Flight 93 election than the one four years ago. How does it look to you?

  • #2
    Over the past months there has been evidence of slippage of Trump's lock on evangelicals. A new Supreme Court fight may change that. Josh Hawley stated he is a no vote unless the candidate explicitly states he or she will vote to overturn Roe vs Wade. Do you think any candidate would expressly state that? Does anyone actually believe Hawley would vote no? We have two no votes already with Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. As for Mitt, I'm not sure. He's a good, decent man, but normally I think we could count on him to be reasonable and fair, but not sure what he'd do.
    ​​​​​​
    I tend to think the only way this Supreme Court thing would help Trump is if he nominated someone, but the process is not completed prior to the election. If it's a done deal, I'm not sure people would vote for him again because then the enthusiasm abates, simply because the Supreme Court would be solidly conservative at that point.

    Comment


    • #3
      I feel almost as low now as I felt in the days after he was elected. The main reason the Republicans sold their souls to Trump was to get conservatives on the court, and boy has that bargain paid off for them. The country is a shitshow, the state of our democracy is a shambles, we've ceded whatever status we had as a global leader perhaps forever as neither ally nor foe will have any reason to trust us beyond the next presidential election, but by God, we've got a judiciary filled with conservatives. I have every expectation that Trump will get whatever nominee we throws up there confirmed.

      I've said it before, but what bothers me most about the Trump presidency is not so much him or the 40% of the population that will think he is great no matter the manner in which he takes metaphorical dumps on the country. Tribalism makes sense. People's identities are wrapped up in their political teams, just like they are in their college football team. Maybe Trump's an idiot, but he's our idiot! And at least he's not a socialist! (Although don't ask me to identify all the socialism that I currently enjoy.)

      What concerns me the most is the way in which the people in the Republican party, the people who know better and collectively would have had the power to diminish the growing Executive Overreach and reclaim some power for the Legislature, have dropped their pants, bent over, and allowed Trump to "grab them by the #$#@%." They could have gotten their conservative judges while not going whole hog on xenophobia, overt white-supremacy, QAnon conspiracy mongering, cross-the-board science denialism, self-dealing corruption, utter incompetence, dim-witted schoolyard bullying, proud ignorance, and moral ambivalence. The Republicans have lost me for at least a generation. I will not vote for another Republican certainly at state or federal level until all these fuckers are cleared out ... every Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, every one who has sold out their ideological souls for this reality TV con man, effect on the country they supposedly swore to support and defend be damned.

      Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Where's the Tylenol?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Duquesne Frog View Post
        I feel almost as low now as I felt in the days after he was elected. The main reason the Republicans sold their souls to Trump was to get conservatives on the court, and boy has that bargain paid off for them. The country is a shitshow, the state of our democracy is a shambles, we've ceded whatever status we had as a global leader perhaps forever as neither ally nor foe will have any reason to trust us beyond the next presidential election, but by God, we've got a judiciary filled with conservatives. I have every expectation that Trump will get whatever nominee we throws up there confirmed.

        I've said it before, but what bothers me most about the Trump presidency is not so much him or the 40% of the population that will think he is great no matter the manner in which he takes metaphorical dumps on the country. Tribalism makes sense. People's identities are wrapped up in their political teams, just like they are in their college football team. Maybe Trump's an idiot, but he's our idiot! And at least he's not a socialist! (Although don't ask me to identify all the socialism that I currently enjoy.)

        What concerns me the most is the way in which the people in the Republican party, the people who know better and collectively would have had the power to diminish the growing Executive Overreach and reclaim some power for the Legislature, have dropped their pants, bent over, and allowed Trump to "grab them by the #$#@%." They could have gotten their conservative judges while not going whole hog on xenophobia, overt white-supremacy, QAnon conspiracy mongering, cross-the-board science denialism, self-dealing corruption, utter incompetence, dim-witted schoolyard bullying, proud ignorance, and moral ambivalence. The Republicans have lost me for at least a generation. I will not vote for another Republican certainly at state or federal level until all these fuckers are cleared out ... every Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, every one who has sold out their ideological souls for this reality TV con man, effect on the country they supposedly swore to support and defend be damned.

        Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Where's the Tylenol?
        There used to be a program in the 90s that exposed the salacious history of celebrities. It was hosted by AJ or EJ Benza.

        There's gonna be a humdinger of a story on Lindsay Graham. Anybody that can flip as quickly as he did is capable of any sort of disgraceful acts.

        I think that the sense of fair play rather than merely the legality of an action is going to be killed by Republicans very soon. I would not be surprised to live in a nation of 52 states with 15 SC Justices if a handful of Senators don't scupper the nomination. I don't know if there are enough Republicans in the Senate who are deeply concerned about ethical behavior.

        Comment


        • #5
          I just think it's funny that people who call themselves conservatives are still somehow under the impression that Trump is one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Jaime Harrison is a star. I hope he wins. Although, it’s incongruous with politics, we need honest people. I donated today. Spamming the hell out of #liarlindsey. I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

            maybe Trump has killed enough of his supporters with his failed covid response to ensure Biden is elected.

            btw, Trump, your words to God’s ear that Biden is SleepyJoe, because I can live without the drama... and sleep would be a good thing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Duquesne Frog View Post
              I feel almost as low now as I felt in the days after he was elected. The main reason the Republicans sold their souls to Trump was to get conservatives on the court, and boy has that bargain paid off for them. The country is a shitshow, the state of our democracy is a shambles, we've ceded whatever status we had as a global leader perhaps forever as neither ally nor foe will have any reason to trust us beyond the next presidential election, but by God, we've got a judiciary filled with conservatives. I have every expectation that Trump will get whatever nominee we throws up there confirmed.

              I've said it before, but what bothers me most about the Trump presidency is not so much him or the 40% of the population that will think he is great no matter the manner in which he takes metaphorical dumps on the country. Tribalism makes sense. People's identities are wrapped up in their political teams, just like they are in their college football team. Maybe Trump's an idiot, but he's our idiot! And at least he's not a socialist! (Although don't ask me to identify all the socialism that I currently enjoy.)

              What concerns me the most is the way in which the people in the Republican party, the people who know better and collectively would have had the power to diminish the growing Executive Overreach and reclaim some power for the Legislature, have dropped their pants, bent over, and allowed Trump to "grab them by the #$#@%." They could have gotten their conservative judges while not going whole hog on xenophobia, overt white-supremacy, QAnon conspiracy mongering, cross-the-board science denialism, self-dealing corruption, utter incompetence, dim-witted schoolyard bullying, proud ignorance, and moral ambivalence. The Republicans have lost me for at least a generation. I will not vote for another Republican certainly at state or federal level until all these fuckers are cleared out ... every Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, every one who has sold out their ideological souls for this reality TV con man, effect on the country they supposedly swore to support and defend be damned.

              Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Where's the Tylenol?
              lol. His bailout of the farmers *is* socialism.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pcf View Post

                There used to be a program in the 90s that exposed the salacious history of celebrities. It was hosted by AJ or EJ Benza.

                There's gonna be a humdinger of a story on Lindsay Graham. Anybody that can flip as quickly as he did is capable of any sort of disgraceful acts.

                I think that the sense of fair play rather than merely the legality of an action is going to be killed by Republicans very soon. I would not be surprised to live in a nation of 52 states with 15 SC Justices if a handful of Senators don't scupper the nomination. I don't know if there are enough Republicans in the Senate who are deeply concerned about ethical behavior.
                I read one analysis that called for the Dems to go nuclear, to announce that if the Reps carry thru on nominating and confirming a justice this year that they will, if they win the Presidency and both houses of Congress, admit DC as the 51st state (adding two likely liberal senators), eliminate the filibuster, and increase the number of justices which would allow Biden to nominate several new justices...and be ready to carry out that threat. he more rational hope is that enough Rep senators will declare that they will not vote to confirm until after the election.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by weklfrog View Post

                  I read one analysis that called for the Dems to go nuclear, to announce that if the Reps carry thru on nominating and confirming a justice this year that they will, if they win the Presidency and both houses of Congress, admit DC as the 51st state (adding two likely liberal senators), eliminate the filibuster, and increase the number of justices which would allow Biden to nominate several new justices...and be ready to carry out that threat. he more rational hope is that enough Rep senators will declare that they will not vote to confirm until after the election.
                  I think this is the stakes. If Trump defines a new justice, then yeah... I’m fine with packing the court.

                  i live in a divided household. I watch CNN in the living room., Dave watches FoX in the sunroom.

                  kind of amazed we still talk. Dave isn’t stupid, I don’t get it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Duquesne Frog View Post
                    I feel almost as low now as I felt in the days after he was elected. The main reason the Republicans sold their souls to Trump was to get conservatives on the court, and boy has that bargain paid off for them. The country is a shitshow, the state of our democracy is a shambles, we've ceded whatever status we had as a global leader perhaps forever as neither ally nor foe will have any reason to trust us beyond the next presidential election, but by God, we've got a judiciary filled with conservatives. I have every expectation that Trump will get whatever nominee we throws up there confirmed.

                    I've said it before, but what bothers me most about the Trump presidency is not so much him or the 40% of the population that will think he is great no matter the manner in which he takes metaphorical dumps on the country. Tribalism makes sense. People's identities are wrapped up in their political teams, just like they are in their college football team. Maybe Trump's an idiot, but he's our idiot! And at least he's not a socialist! (Although don't ask me to identify all the socialism that I currently enjoy.)

                    What concerns me the most is the way in which the people in the Republican party, the people who know better and collectively would have had the power to diminish the growing Executive Overreach and reclaim some power for the Legislature, have dropped their pants, bent over, and allowed Trump to "grab them by the #$#@%." They could have gotten their conservative judges while not going whole hog on xenophobia, overt white-supremacy, QAnon conspiracy mongering, cross-the-board science denialism, self-dealing corruption, utter incompetence, dim-witted schoolyard bullying, proud ignorance, and moral ambivalence. The Republicans have lost me for at least a generation. I will not vote for another Republican certainly at state or federal level until all these fuckers are cleared out ... every Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, every one who has sold out their ideological souls for this reality TV con man, effect on the country they supposedly swore to support and defend be damned.

                    Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Where's the Tylenol?
                    Every word of this. It has been so much worse than I expected, and I expected it to be very, very bad.

                    Our democracy is hanging on by a thread.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Poison Arrow Frog View Post

                      I think this is the stakes. If Trump defines a new justice, then yeah... I’m fine with packing the court.

                      i live in a divided household. I watch CNN in the living room., Dave watches FoX in the sunroom.

                      kind of amazed we still talk. Dave isn’t stupid, I don’t get it.
                      The other day an old high school friend of mine who had never really posted anything political on Facebook before went on a screed similar to mine above about how Obama was the worst president ever. And how could you possibly ever vote for the Dems. And I knew this but it was just another affirmation that its all basic, lizard-brained tribalism. While I don't think Obama was perfect by any means, I cannot comprehend a world where a straight-up pros and cons comparison of Obama and Trump would lead you to the conclusion that Obama was worse than Trump.

                      Being POTUS is hard. And every decision is on public display and discussed ad nauseum 24-hours a day by people paid significant money to disagree with every singe thing you say and do. I can give you a list of 20 things off the top of my head that I disagreed with for every president in my lifetime.

                      I thought GWB was a terrible president, but I never took him for a cynical self-dealer. I think he, for the most part, was legitimately making decisions he thought were in the country's best interests, even if I disagreed with many of those decisions.And I acknowledge that he had a lot of tough decisions to make.

                      It is transparently obvious that Trump cares not one whit about anything other than Donald. J. Trump. It's been obvious his whole bloody life, before he ever showed interest in going into politics. I don't think he cares about abortion or Confederate statues or Christianity or the plight of the poor white coal miner any more than he cares about whichever Eastern European fembot he's got himself hitched to at the moment. He would pay for the abortion of a sex worker he knocked up without blinking. Policy aside, the man is a terrible human. How someone can look at that man and Obama and come to the conclusion that Obama was worse?

                      Tribalism. It's the only answer that makes sense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Duquesne Frog View Post

                        The other day an old high school friend of mine who had never really posted anything political on Facebook before went on a screed similar to mine above about how Obama was the worst president ever. And how could you possibly ever vote for the Dems. And I knew this but it was just another affirmation that its all basic, lizard-brained tribalism. While I don't think Obama was perfect by any means, I cannot comprehend a world where a straight-up pros and cons comparison of Obama and Trump would lead you to the conclusion that Obama was worse than Trump.

                        Being POTUS is hard. And every decision is on public display and discussed ad nauseum 24-hours a day by people paid significant money to disagree with every singe thing you say and do. I can give you a list of 20 things off the top of my head that I disagreed with for every president in my lifetime.

                        I thought GWB was a terrible president, but I never took him for a cynical self-dealer. I think he, for the most part, was legitimately making decisions he thought were in the country's best interests, even if I disagreed with many of those decisions.And I acknowledge that he had a lot of tough decisions to make.

                        It is transparently obvious that Trump cares not one whit about anything other than Donald. J. Trump. It's been obvious his whole bloody life, before he ever showed interest in going into politics. I don't think he cares about abortion or Confederate statues or Christianity or the plight of the poor white coal miner any more than he cares about whichever Eastern European fembot he's got himself hitched to at the moment. He would pay for the abortion of a sex worker he knocked up without blinking. Policy aside, the man is a terrible human. How someone can look at that man and Obama and come to the conclusion that Obama was worse?

                        Tribalism. It's the only answer that makes sense.
                        Yeah, but I do think the underlying tribal membership is deeply related to views on race and ethnicity, religion, and the brain's natural response to fear. If I were to devise a sorting hat based on 1 data point, the most accurate one would be tied to response to race and ethnicity.

                        Frankly, I think Trump and I agree on that analysis because he's pushing the white suburban women to imagine "low income" intruders into their neighborhood.

                        The overlap between views on race and some very Republican biased churches are historically documented and are still contentious to this day. Arlington's Dwight McKissic could testify on this. God help him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Duquesne Frog View Post

                          The other day an old high school friend of mine who had never really posted anything political on Facebook before went on a screed similar to mine above about how Obama was the worst president ever. And how could you possibly ever vote for the Dems. And I knew this but it was just another affirmation that its all basic, lizard-brained tribalism. While I don't think Obama was perfect by any means, I cannot comprehend a world where a straight-up pros and cons comparison of Obama and Trump would lead you to the conclusion that Obama was worse than Trump.

                          Being POTUS is hard. And every decision is on public display and discussed ad nauseum 24-hours a day by people paid significant money to disagree with every singe thing you say and do. I can give you a list of 20 things off the top of my head that I disagreed with for every president in my lifetime.

                          I thought GWB was a terrible president, but I never took him for a cynical self-dealer. I think he, for the most part, was legitimately making decisions he thought were in the country's best interests, even if I disagreed with many of those decisions.And I acknowledge that he had a lot of tough decisions to make.

                          It is transparently obvious that Trump cares not one whit about anything other than Donald. J. Trump. It's been obvious his whole bloody life, before he ever showed interest in going into politics. I don't think he cares about abortion or Confederate statues or Christianity or the plight of the poor white coal miner any more than he cares about whichever Eastern European fembot he's got himself hitched to at the moment. He would pay for the abortion of a sex worker he knocked up without blinking. Policy aside, the man is a terrible human. How someone can look at that man and Obama and come to the conclusion that Obama was worse?

                          Tribalism. It's the only answer that makes sense.
                          The most amazing con in the history of time is how low-income rural folks were somehow convinced that this particular man gives a rat's ass about their existence. He shits on a gold toilet. I feel like country folks should look at him and think "that boy ain't right in the head". But somehow the bulk have been persuaded to vote against their own interests (especially regarding healthcare) to support this vile man who objectively has proven that he doesn't care at all if they live or die.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pcf View Post

                            Yeah, but I do think the underlying tribal membership is deeply related to views on race and ethnicity, religion, and the brain's natural response to fear. If I were to devise a sorting hat based on 1 data point, the most accurate one would be tied to response to race and ethnicity.

                            Frankly, I think Trump and I agree on that analysis because he's pushing the white suburban women to imagine "low income" intruders into their neighborhood.

                            The overlap between views on race and some very Republican biased churches are historically documented and are still contentious to this day. Arlington's Dwight McKissic could testify on this. God help him.
                            There is definitely something to the fear thing. I had a coworker/friend at my previous job who is an intelligent human who is all in on Trump/guns/etc. Harps constantly on the self-defense thing, protecting the home, guns for protection. It occurred to me when talking to him that he's just fundamentally more afraid than I am. I do not live in constant fear of being attacked whereas he seems to. Not once in my 45 years have I ever felt like I needed a gun to protect me and my family. Am I naive? Maybe. Will I find myself in a situation where I will have wished I had a gun in my future? Maybe. But the odds seem really small. And I'd be so worried that my impulsive ADHD son would decide to try to get to it that the anxiety would kill me long before the prospective home invader did.

                            There is definitely a wide scale of "willingness to embrace otherness" that people fall into. And I'm pretty sure that scale would correlate closely with liberal/conservative ideology.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Fear of the other is definitely a factor, but in our extended family fear of "socialism" is the big boogeyman. Which fascinates me, because the right is way, way closer to fascism right now than the left is to socialism. And, as been pointed out up thread, Trump doesn't adhere to any ideology at all other than self-adoration so he is happy to embrace government bailouts if it seemingly benefits people he sees as fans (farmers, corporations, the ultra-rich, etc.). Things we should fear (say, North Korea with long-range nukes) get muddied into Trump nonsense (like oversized love letters). I think the tribalism mentioned before makes it very easy for people to just see what they want to see.

                              I am exhausted. We have all been trapped in this dysfunctional relationship with a malignant narcissist and outrage fatigue simply wears us down. Yesterday morning Biden was in church and Trump was retweeting fart noises and somehow we've become so numb to the relentless insanity that it doesn't hardly register anymore.

                              Comment

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